Separate PvE and PvP balances

Just now, DauntedVenus said:

There should be a way to separate the balances made to dinosaurs and game mechanics between PvE and PvP.

Multiple balances have made PvE nothing but hard. Managarmr being a recent example, in PvE they're useless now thanks to the many balances made to make PvP better.

Flier nerf was a huge change in PvE making fliers and transportation harder by forcing us to land since PvP was taking to the skies too often and the game tried to "ground" the fight

I agree with the topic but not the flier nerf bit. It was needed and shouldnt be put back in.

As the title says, we need SEPARATE buffs/nerfs/balance tweaks for PVE and PVP. 2 completely different game modes with completely different strategies, objectives and player types need different tweaks to the game.

This has become especially evident in the cases of the extreme and repeated nerfs of the Managarmr, a new and versatile creature that quickly became as useful as throwing small feces at a wild Giga... All because of the outcry of a portion of PVP players, while completely ignoring, disregarding the PVE community. While PVP was focused on griefing fellow players with Manas, PVE players needed that versatility to focus on boss taming/killing. You can see the frustration on both sides. PVP is still and will be forever complaining about Manas, while PVE clings to being able to still play with that creature. This is only one example.

For two game modes you need two game settings. It is only logical, as a famous saying goes.

So please, for the sake of the PVE and PVP communities, revert those extreme tweaks and focus on implementing them completely different in PVE and PVP game modes. This might be the most urgent game balance.

PS: DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT make this a discussion over PVE/PVP supremacy. If you want to know, they both suck equally bad for different reasons!

I agree that they do need to be approached differently, as they've basically different games. Some aspects of the flier nerf could have stayed for PvE tbh. But the mana nerf I don't agree with. There's no reason you need the fastest dino in the game to be DPS haha.

I'm okay with the flyer nerf, it made it so players would opt to use other creatures instead of just solely using a lightning fast flyer. I know also that it is hard to code in separate entries for PVE and PVP when it comes to creatures. Essentially, there would be two different instances of the same creature. Not real sure if making separate settings for PVE and for PVP for dinos is something that we would likely see, but it would be cool.

I agree with the separate modes of play, but the worst part of the differences in the game are that fliers can't carry wild dinos. Its ok that you can kite 20+ wyverns to someones base, yet you're worried about someone dropping a dilo? Just doesn't make sense.

2 hours ago, Coffee6969 said:

I 100% agree with this as a PVP player, So often we are forced to endure nerfs and gameplay forced upon us due to PVE needing something to act or be a certain way versus how it effects the PVP side of things

Got an example. Because all the nerfs i know about were due to PvP reasons.

Anyone has a list of things that desperately need separate balancing?

Besides the things that were nerfed for PvP.

PvE (official) has dino cap as a main issue, so maybe make cryopods function differently on PvE. Or introduce a breeding pod with no delay. 

I agree too with this suggestion, some "nerf" for example on the mana hit the PVE who was not necessary, on PvP i understand, but on PvE i do not !

+hype

1 hour ago, YourHearse said:

If there are separate settings for PvE and PvP then what happens when PvE tribes go to war ? 

 

Do the settings change for those PvE tribes ? 

Dino stats?

Player stats?

 

 

 

These would all be possible differences. PvE might have a more generous player weight setting.

As for tribe war, it would have to be based on the PvE mode. It wouldn't make sense for tribes at war to suddenly be under PvP settings like wild flyer carry. 

I signed up just to reply to this. Everyone on my PVE server had been working for ages to breed Mana for our titan raids. Then poof. All those hours and weeks gone for nothing. PLEASE make the PVE and PVP separate. Mana is useless now. PVP is 100% valid and should of course be balanced well, but PVE is a different breed and needs different balancing. 

Don't just ignore PVE and assume modders are going to keep "fixing" it all for PVE either. I get those kinds of replies on the Steam forums. "PVP makes the rules, just go get modders to fix PVE for you." That's not okay either. 

On 4/24/2019 at 7:18 AM, covenantgrunt said:

In pve they should just enable creative mode and God mode. People should not even have to farm just spawn in creatures and bases. And instant kill anything by right clicking on it. It's pve balance don't matter.

I feel this is sarcasm, pve players that play official, dont want creative mode and God mode, that's why they play official instead of private dedi or singleplayer

I completely agree!!!

PVP SHOULD NEVER EFFECT/CONTROL PVE GAME PLAY!!!

Otherwise developers need to decide from day one if the game is PVP or PVE controlled. IF PVP, those of us who do not play PVP, can spend our cash elsewhere. Destiny was awesome, then year 2 and 3 PVP controlled 100% f the game mechanics. When Destiny 2 was release, I spent my money elsewhere. 

I stll hope they will allow PVE server wild dino grabbing, but with separate rules from pvp server to avoid griefing. Like :

- cannot drop dinoes near other people's building, or when there is an unconscious dino nearby with shorter range in case someone is taming near our own building, so dropping carried wild dino uses building placement rule without factoring in height PLUS if there is other tribe's unconscious dino.

- if dc or off mount, the wild dino will despawn after X minutes, reset when reconnected or on mount again.

- when landing for stam, grabbed wild dino will be tethered to the feet of the bird and will despawn after X minutes, same with the above rule, reset when fly again.

That would be great and make taming easier with all the pillars everywhere on pve server.

That, or allow placing structure as TEMPORARY STRUCTURE (max 7h) that can only be placed only when there is an own unconscious dino nearby and is near other ppl's building. That would be useful for taming anywhere and put spike walls around the tame while nearby other ppl's building.

These things are PVE stuffs and should be separated. There will be a lot more ideas to make PVE server better for PVE that doesn't need to be in pvp server so this separate pvp/pve development is a good idea.

Stats seem to indicate that the majority of players are PvE .... so maybe they should focus on making sure the game favors those players instead. ?

5 hours ago, johnm81 said:

Or maybe they should balance PvE and PvP with different rule sets so we wouldn't have to contend with your insufferable elitism? 

I don't know, PvP crowd has always seemed way more elitist to me.

11 minutes ago, DauntedVenus said:

There should be a way to separate the balances made to dinosaurs and game mechanics between PvE and PvP.

Multiple balances have made PvE nothing but hard. Managarmr being a recent example, in PvE they're useless now thanks to the many balances made to make PvP better.

Flier nerf was a huge change in PvE making fliers and transportation harder by forcing us to land since PvP was taking to the skies too often and the game tried to "ground" the fight

I agree with all of this, including reintroducing  classic fliers. I miss my speed quetzal.

Came strait here to put this in.  You beat me to it! This.  Do this. 

1 minute ago, Eoptap said:

Yup if you paid attention you would notice that I was telling the pvp person that the standards are not the same, and should be seperate.

The person you replied to was talking about the flyer nerf. You were talking about manas. Completely different things.

The flyer nerf increased the challenges of PvE making land dinos useful for transport and travel. Instead of get flyer = easy mode = win.

The mana nerf is a completely different topic. 

I don't think any major nerf should be enacted without settings (not requiring mods) to revert them. Also, PvE shouldn't be effected by PvP only nerfs. But this would mean creating one or more setting(s) to make PvP and PvE different.

On 4/24/2019 at 9:43 AM, divisd1 said:

It would not be easy at all. Have you ever looked at the dev kit to see how stuff actually works? Easy to give suggestions and say they are easy to implement if you haven't the slightest idea of how any of it actually works.

There is already a single player setting that adjusts the game for sp. Why couldn't there be a setting for pve that just unnerfs everything? honestly all the nerfs are for pvp they take all of this time to fix pvp and destroy pve. Save the setting you have before the nerf, create a boolean that when =true enacts the nerfs. It would only be a lot of work because they didn't start doing it this way.

I think this applies to many different creatures, not just the mana. Titans, upon release, dominated extinction. Undeniably. And it made sense for the gigantic titans to dominate the world. I play both PVE and PVP, and in PVP, I see these enormous, apex predators able to be taken down by any tribe with 4-5 meks. Which is more balanced in general, but when it simply doesn't make sense. The way ARK has always functioned was : Big Monster = Big Threat. The titans no longer adhere to this logical rule. Now, on my PVE world, I have a level 301, health and damage mutated Giganotosaurus. It is about as strong as my level 290 Rex. See the stupidity here? The Giga is roughly 3x the Rex's size, but a higher level, mutated Giga is weaker than your average damage-focused rex. I, of course, remember how OP the Giga was in PVP when it was first released. But I do NOT remember it making PVE less fun, or unbalanced for new players. In fact, the Giga nerfs were DISAPPOINTING in PVE. Like any sane man, I am afraid of wild Gigas. When I first ever tamed a Giga, the nerf was out, but I wasn't aware of this. I was expecting a massive beast of endless might, but I just wasted a lot of tranqs and meat. 

TL;DR 

PVP nerfs are slowly ruining the PVE experience, and I have seen it firsthand.

On 4/23/2019 at 10:40 PM, Coffee6969 said:

I 100% agree with this as a PVP player, So often we are forced to endure nerfs and gameplay forced upon us due to PVE needing something to act or be a certain way versus how it effects the PVP side of things

Still waiting to hear what Nerfs PVP has suffered because of PVE needing something

PvP can fly in caves, build in caves, pick up wild Dino's and destroy other peoples; spiked walls, taming pens, pillar spam, land ownership claims

What did PvP suffer because of something PvE did?

totaly agree on that, i cant care less about pvp in ark if i want to play pvp thers lots of games that i can chouse but for a grinding game like ark pve is the way to go for me, and i hate all the nerf we sufer from the pvp valance.

100% agree with this thread, most of the PvP nerfs make absolutely no sense being implemented into PvE

there's also the problem with placing the Tek Generator and the long range it needs to be away from others foundations. I guess it has this long range for PvP reasons (long range of Tek Turret and all that) but on PvE you build your base and just after it is finished and you want to place a Tek Generator you realize that your neighbours are too close and you aren't allowed to place it anywhere inside your own base and there is nothing you can do about it